When I was waiting for the realease of Inner strength, I was theory crafting builds and I was initially anticipating Powerful cantrip to be an amazing feat for warlocks. However, with how agonising blast is considered a separate instance of damage instead of part of the main attack, it actually makes multiple Eldritch blast doing, on average, less damage than firebolt when it misses with powerful cantrip (at level 5+).
Over the course of thousands of rolls the difference isn't that big (average of 7.8 for eldritch blast instead of 8.25 for firebolt) but still, ... even without this interaction, the calculation seems strange.
Theoratically it also makes damage resistance (I don't think there is force damage resistance in Solasta) much more efficient than it should. Contrary to playing Table top DnD 5 when we calculate the eldritch blast damage, we add the D10+Charisma modifier before applying any reduction.
What do you think? Is it something that may be changed in the future?
I know it's nitpicking, and I like the game and the update overall it's just a strange interaction, unlike similar damage calculation (like melee attacks, adding the strength bonus isn't a separate instance).
It's technically correct (the best kind of correct) that agonising blast shouldn't be applied. Agonising Blast is applied on hit, but Powerful Cantrip damage is still a miss.Same as Repelling blast.
Over the course of thousands of rolls the difference isn't that big (average of 7.8 for eldritch blast instead of 8.25 for firebolt) but still, ... even without this interaction, the calculation seems strange.
I'm curious, could you explain where you are getting these numbers from and what they are? These look a bit like expected damage from full misses at level 11+, but a little off.
Eldritch blast is straight forward to calculate expected damage on powerful cantrip, 2.5 per missed blast so 7.5 expected. Firebolt it's probably easiest to calculate numerically but a dirty estimate is that it's like eldritch blast but you are only being hit by the rounding tax once (0.25 damage) so it should be about 8.
To be frank though, I think powerful cantrip is a weak feat. Expected damage you have to multiply through by miss chance. Even assuming the vanilla 35% the expected damage contribution is not terrible but not great. Start to take into account finding some way to get advantage or buff up your hit chance and it starts to look bad. And it only applies when you cast a cantrip. It's not like there are many/any good feats for casters though (revised Shield Up kind of being the exception that proves the rule, because it's not really a caster feat).
It's because you have 3 times as many chances to get 1 damage (30% chance on the D10) since a roll or 1, 2 or 3 = 1 Damage (or is it reduced to 0? I've never noticed damage reduced to 0) and only 1/10 chance to get a 10 (reduced to 5).
So if I count the reduced damage on the D10 it's 1 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 3 + 3 + 4 + 4 + 5 = 26 / 10 = 2.6 average damage if you shoot one eldritch blast, 7.8 if you shoot 3.
Unless a roll of 1 = 0 but I think you always have a min of 1 damage, ... right ?
As for firebolt the repartition is not as straight forward because you don't have the same chances to get a total of 3 than a total of 16. You only have 1/1000 chance to roll a 3 but you have 7,5% chance to get a 16 or a 17. I roundn't count a round down tax on the average, because on average it should still be about 8.25 damage overall.
It's normal repelling blast and malediction don't get applied with powerful cantrip, however I disagree with agonising blast. In DnD5 table top you count the overall damage before the reduction. Just like a warrior hitting with a non-magic weapon an enemy that has damage resistance. The warrior would do (in case of a greataxe) (1d12+STR Mod)/2. If you have an instance of damage reduction against a walock, in the table top game, the calculation would be (1d10+CHA Mod)/2 and not 1d10/2+CHA Mod/2 like it happens in Solasta (with uncanny dodge for example). That why I'm saying I think agonising blast damage should be included in the main damage and not a separate instance.
Now it's possible the dev thought it would be too powerful for the warlock because it would make an Eldritch blast with 20 Charisma do an average of 5 damage (so 15 for 3 and even 16.5 of you have 22 Charisma with a tome). Therefore, a decent amount of guaranteed damage
But yeah Caster don't have good feats except for Flawless concentration, ... which is a shame... I wish I had more gut wrenching choice to make instead of +2 Stat twice + 1 feat for my caster.
Unless a roll of 1 = 0 but I think you always have a min of 1 damage, ... right ?
Unless Solasta's rules differ here there is no min 1 damage
As for firebolt the repartition is not as straight forward because you don't have the same chances to get a total of 3 than a total of 16. You only have 1/1000 chance to roll a 3 but you have 7,5% chance to get a 16 or a 17. I roundn't count a round down tax on the average, because on average it should still be about 8.25 damage overall.
Having thought about it, pretty sure 8 is correct. One way to think about it is the distribution is symmetrical. There's the same chance of 3 as 30, 4 as 29, and so on. Every even number is paired to an odd one, the chance of getting odd or even are both 50%. Therefore it's a 50% chance to get rounded and lose 0.5 of damage, so just applying the -0.25 rounding tax on the whole damage role is correct.
It's normal repelling blast and malediction don't get applied with powerful cantrip, however I disagree with agonising blast.
Repelling Blast and Malediction aren't features of Eldritch Blast, but things which trigger when it hits, which is the same as Agonising Blast. Agonising Blast is kind of a weird one in that as written it then modifies the cantrip when it triggers rather than being a separate source of damage, and you are right that Solasta seems to implement it as a separate source. But the fundamental reason it shouldn't apply is the same, no hit, so the trigger condition isn't met.
Ok for the 8 on Fire Bolt, Eldritch blast is at 7.5if no min damage. so it's pretty much a useless cantrip even for a class that relies heavily on his cantrip.
But we'll leave it as a mutual disagrement on the agonising blast part.
Just for clarity, the exact wording of Agonising Blast is the same as SRD
"When you cast eldritch blast, add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals on a hit."
While Powerful Cantrip causes it to do damage, there is still no hit.
Well of course, any damage only apply on a hit.
Even unarmed strikes: "On a hit, an unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier" because the game rules assume you do hit to deal damage, otherwise you don't.
But the feat makes an exception, allowing you to still deal damage when you don't hit.
I think we are disagreeing on the feat wording: "When a creature succeeds on a saving throw against your cantrip or dodges your cantrip, the creature takes half damage but suffers no additional effect from the cantrip"
"The creature takes half damage" meaning takes half the damage it would have if it had been hit. So, to me it should still be applied.
If it didn't dodge you would have added the charisma damage.
To me agonising blast isn't additional effect (Like shocked, pushed, mocked etc). For you it is and this is where we disagree. And this is why I mentioned above, we both disagree on that and I think that's fine to leave it there.
To me agonising blast isn't additional effect (Like shocked, pushed, mocked etc). For you it is and this is where we disagree.
That's not what I'm saying. It's not to do with the additional effect clause of the feat. That removes things like Chill Touch's healing debuff. Malidiction and Reppeling Blast are not an "additional effect" they are separate effects which are triggered by the cantrip. And so is Agonising Blast. Powerful Cantrip is itself a separate effect triggered by the cantrip. It makes sense its damage is based on the cantrip itself.
I'm not sure why you talk about Malediction and repelling blast I mentioned already it's normal they are not triggered by Powerful Cantrip.
To me agonising blast shouldn't be considered as a separate effect that is all that's my feedback. We're just running circles here. There is nothing to add we disagree that's it.
You can disagree with my feedback, that is still my feedback that I don't think it shouldn't be a separate effect
Powerful Cantrip never triggered any additional effects before, like the Draconic Sorcerer's elemental affinity, and I think that's reasonable. It is a fairly powerful feat for casters and more so for Warlocks since Eldritch Blast is a very strong cantrip. The closest thing in tabletop is the 6th lvl Evoker Wizard feature that only applies to saving throw based cantrips.
Typos happen. More so on the phone.