Two Weapon Fighting Options?

chris.clark
Level 7
3 months ago (edited)

I posted this in the feedback forum (seemed more appropriate than the General Discussion forum).  Only found this post after...

Homebrew Dual Wield feat idea

3 months ago

Two weapons is a trope I find particularly silly. Its implementation in games has made it even more silly because it usually implemented in a way that is opposite to how it works in reality (and why TWF was rarely a useful thing). I don’t miss it one bit.

However, this trope has become so popular that people pretty much expect it in fantasy games. I imagine the devs could eventually make something up that will not break SRD, but personally I’d send this task to the bottom of the todo list.

tdphys
Level 1
3 months ago

Well, if you wanted to make this a more "historical" thing, you could simply lose the +1 AC from the dual wielder feat and allow heavier weapons.  Call it the "I don't care about defense feat".   Or the devs could simply allow dual wielding with all one handed weapons, and you take a -1 to AC unless the weapons are light.  

You could have feats that instead restore the AC for example,  offhand parry dagger, or something, where if you wield an offhand with a light weapon you can restore the AC, or even bump it to restore a +1 like in the original feat.

Hot Stuff
Level 3
Newsletter Link Kickstarter Backer
2 months ago

Shouldn't be that hard to come up with something unique to Solasta.

Solastan Two Weapon Fighting:  Training in a specific Solastan style, you may choose a single non-light 1-handed weapon type (Rapier, Longsword, etc).  You may now wield two of that specific weapon type at the same time.  Feat may be taken multiple times, choosing a different non-light 1-handed weapon each time.

Should be unique enough (at least as unique as "Creed of _____" when compared to functionally identical "Resilient".  ;-)

-Hot Stuff

GamaerJack
Visitor
2 months ago (edited)

Hi, I want to start playing this game, I was very interested in it! This game has wow power leveling, I haven't played games in this genre for a long time. Perhaps I will even like it better than Dota 2. Where there is also a large selection of artifacts and weapons. But it may not start for me, since I have a weak PC.

thelawblade
Visitor
2 months ago (edited)

One historical approach would be a light, finesse weapon (e.g., short sword or rapier) and a light dagger (or dirk).  My understanding that they weren't often used to strike at the same time in the same way that you see in modern fantasy novels.  The off-hand was sometimes used to parry, but it could also be used to strike when the primary weapon was engaged in a parry or locked.

I think this could be translated into interesting gameplay mechanics.  Maybe attack with one weapon and allow the other weapon to intercept/parry attacks as a reaction ability.  Alternatively, when using the Dodge (or preferably a new Parry) action, if you successfully parry, it gives you a riposte option that does more damage (because the enemy is going to be very vulnerable at the moment of a parry).

2 months ago

Call it the way of Five Rings, Musashi was known for fighting with two swords. Longsword and short sword are a classic combo, as are rapier and dagger.

1 month ago

I created a fighter and took the 2 weapon fighting style, had to get through the intro to even be able to equip a second weapon. When I was finally able to equip a second weapon I found out not only can I not equip 2 longswords, if I equip any non-light weapon (e.g. longsword, battle axe) in my main hand I am able to equip a light weapon in my off hand but it is a useless weapon because having a non-light weapon in the main hand prevents the bonus attack with the off hand weapon, which makes it decorative and 2 weapon fighting style for a fighter useless, imo. I can't even do a classic duelist, rapier and dagger combination. I am very disappointed in this poor game mechanic.

Anfindel
Level 7
1 month ago

Unfortunately, this is the mechanic set out in 5.0 - only light weapons an be used in dual wielding, unlike 2.0 for example. Solasta is holding true to requirements, and to be honest, this is one area where BG3 also holds true.  The days of wielding two longswords, or a longsword/rapier, or even rapier/dagger are gone. Now Solasta could of course offer a house feat, allowing such gear sets, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one - hopefully modders will help in this department down the road.

1 month ago

So, Solasta changed the Darkness rules and people went ballistic.. But you now want them to invent a rule for dual weapons. OK. 


Anyone see any hypocrisy here?

Anfindel
Level 7
1 month ago

Don't know that I went hypocritical. Simply pointed out that this was the 5.0 rule, that the developers can change it if they choose, but given how basic it is to the ruleset, not to expect it to do so, and that I am sure a mod will be offered to do so eventually - hell ,there's a freaking mod for just about everything these days if you wait long enough.


Personally, I have no major issue with any of the mechanics in the game - other than a bunch don't work as yet, and thus can't be properly evaluated, no going ballistic either. 

Heldred
Level 7
1 month ago

For balancing reasons, especially for pure Fighter/Champion, they desperately need better baseline skills and "homebrew feats."  This is a great example of there being a need of a skill to offer "pure fighters" distinction and a combat advantage.  

Simply invent a skill or feature, "Twin Fangs, Double Trouble, Florentine, etc." and allow certain classes (Fighter/Ranger) the ability to wield two weapons (with the exception of two-handers).  

As the game designers have a chance to breathe, class balance requires a look at how to address different shortcomings. 


1 month ago

So, Solasta changed the Darkness rules and people went ballistic.. But you now want them to invent a rule for dual weapons. OK. 


Anyone see any hypocrisy here?

The difference is that there are actual feats in D&D 5e that make dual-wielding better. And the SRD is not intended to provide the full suite of options - it specifically says it is providing the basic framework for you to develop your own feats and subclasses.

So it would be entirely appropriate per the SRD to make feats that improve dual-wielding, whereas changing fundamentally defined lighting concepts is a direct deviation. One is adding material that you are specifically tasked to add, the other was changing content that already exists.

Hot Stuff
Level 3
Newsletter Link Kickstarter Backer
1 month ago

And as we've pointed out, even if they cannot use the "Dual Wielder" feat from D&D 5.0, they can certainly come up with something to do functionally the same thing, just as the "Creed of _____" feats are functionally identical to D&D 5.0 feat "Resilient".  Several have been suggested already in this thread and others.  Regardless of how you feel about it from an historical standpoint or if you think it's silly, it is absolutely a popular trope of the fantasy gaming genre, and a part of D&D 5.0, upon which this game is based.  

I'm hopeful that the Devs will add a Feat to allow dual wielding two non-light weapons.  If not, then I'm hopeful that someone will create a mod to allow it.  ;-)


TomReneth
Level 9
1 month ago

It would be nice to get something for two weapon fighting, but I'd rather they made something that's pretty strong as opposed to just go for the Dual Wielder feat. The extra damage from wielding d8 instead of d6 weapons is on average only ~1, so a Ranger might want something like Medium Armor Master instead to be able to stealth without disadvantage in half-plate. They both increase the armor cap by 1.

Feats is something they have to look at in general, specifically martial feats. Without feats, it's difficult to justify using two-handed or dual wielding compared to sword'n'board with the Dueling style, since they're all very similar in damage output.

In 5e in general, the only ones who effectively dual wield seem to be the ones who don't have other options. Like Rogues, who can't use shields and are limited to finessable weapons for Sneak Attack anyway.


Typos happen. More so on the phone.