The Sorcerer

Velnor
Level 14
6 months ago

Well, I tried this new one, and I like how they do it.

That is  good one!!!!!

Velnor
Level 14
6 months ago

Have played the Sorcerer for a bit now and.............,is okay, but definitely inferior to the Wizard.

Really, I would rather have a Battle Cleric than a Sorcerer in the party.

I did  some reading and listened to some folks talk about the concept, but it was mostly theory crap.

They talked about "natural magic", but the spells are exactly the same as a Wizard and a Cleric, you just get less of them.

Not worth it to me, to have an inferior character in the party.

6 months ago

I liked having AC 18 without armor. I liked using sorcery points to twin spells (like Haste). I liked converting points and slots. I liked having devastating cantrips.

Jeldar
Level 2
6 months ago

Wizards and Sorcerers are on par with each other, they just have a different balance to them. A sorcerer is definitely better at targeted damage. Being able to metamagic a blight spell to hit 2 opponents is very powerful. Also getting to reroll all 1's or 2's is very powerful. Making opponents save at a disadvantage, again very powerful.

The wizard balances this by having a broader range of spells at their disposal. The sorcerer is the specialist the wizard is a generalist.

The1Kobra
Level 4
6 months ago

Well, my thoughts on the wizard vs Sorcerer debate...

First up, spell selections: Sorcerers are locked into their spell picks on level up. Wizards can change their spells/day. Sorcerers are also locked into some of the spells they pick by their archetype. Finally, wizards are able to pick from an expanded set of spells compared to Sorcerers. Sorcerers for instance miss identify, they miss summon elemental (unless they pick the archetype that gets it). Wizards have them beat on spell selection here.

Now, Sorcerers get metamagic, wizards don't get anything that directly compares to metamagic. Now for the utility of metamagic/sorcery points, it can be useful to restock some spells so sorcerers get a few more casts/day compared to wizards, or can empower spells to mildly buff their damage. Twinned spell is a real treat, and is definitely one of the better ones. 

So, you have that spell flexibility vs the bonus power that metamagic can get you. You don't get /that/ many sorcery points though so I personally find the spellbook flexibility more valuable.

Now, lets look at the different archetype bonuses.

In my playthroughs, I had a shock arcanist and a gold dragonblood Sorcerer.

Now, before L6, the shock arcanist had much better bonuses, +1 to spell level on your evocation spells meant they all did more damage than what the sorcerer compared to, plus I had the needed debuffs to handle that part of the spell selection. Now come L6, the dragon sorcerer gets their CHA mod to spell damage for their particular element (fire). It doesn't work as nicely with scorching ray (it only boosts the first ray), but it IS a nice buff for your other fire spells. Fireball, Wall of Fire get a nice little boost. The fire bolt cantrip also got the boost, meaning that when using cantrips, the sorcerer has the wizard beat. The shock arcanist however is more flexible in that it's bonus applies to many damage spells, not just ones of a particular element. Woe betide you if your sorcerer runs into an enemy that's immune to their damage type. 

Still, I do find it evens out in that aspect. 

Defense wise, my wizard was a sellsword so had medium armor. Dragon armor gives 13+DEX AC which wasn't terrible, at least. I do find that later on the half-plate using wizard came out ahead on AC. That said if you don't use the sellsword background the wizard is going to be lacking AC. 

A sellsword court mage wizard adds in shields to the mix meaning they'll race ahead on AC. With a +2 shield and a decent halfplate they can get a nice and tanky AC. That said? Court mage does lose the Shock Arcanist's damage buffs, so again, there's tradeoffs. 

The final item is in skills. Sorcerers can cover your Persuade/Bluff/Intimidate skills well, while the Wizard covers your needed INT skills, Arcana, History, Investigation, etc. I should also mention you use Arcana (INT) when using counterspell, so wizards have a slight synergy advantage there. Skills however will depend on your party synnergy though. If you have a paladin covering your Persuade/Bluff/Intimidate skills, then the Sorcerer's CHA skills won't be nearly as helpful as the Wizard providing the INT skills. Same is true if you have a spellsword fighter or arcane trickster rogue covering the INT skills, they won't synnergize as well with a wizard. 

Personally, I think the wizard comes out ahead overall, but the sorcerer is still plenty viable. Though I will admit to finding the lack of being able to cast identify to be highly annoying. 

6 months ago

Draconic Sorcerers can be very powerful. Twinning means you can Haste two companions or launch two Fire Bolts. These Fire Bolts get quite deadly as you add Draconic fire and your Charisma to the strike. You will never need a weapon. There's enough flexibility that you can always have your best lineup of spells. Since she's going to max out Charisma, might as well make her an Aristocrat and give her the Crown so her persuasion skills will be high as possible for the face work. She's well protected by AC13 unarmored plus Dex. I look to add Bracers +2 and Raise Shield, which lets her fight on the front line where cones and sprays work best.

rbarbare
Level 14
5 months ago

Don't forget quickened spell - cast a spell as a bonus action and use your full action to dodge, disengage, dash, shoot a crossbow, or even melee attack (if you have a good enough AC/HP). It's a personal semi-haste spell.

Since they probably have a good DEX, my favorite trick is to give them the good ammo (ghoul or tiger) and have them quicken an attack spell or Haste, and fire the crossbow too.

The only irritation is that you have to use quickened spell while you still have an action - if you do another action first, you can't get to the menu that allows quickened spell.

feo
Level 5
5 months ago

Weeell, I dunno...

In PnP DnD I'd say both classes have their pros and cons.

Wizard's strengths are being smart and changing spells basically on the fly.

But in CRPGs Sorcerers will just bend the reality to their whim: there're only battle spells, also their number CRPGs is reduced in comparison to PnP, so you just take all useful spells and also you get free armour and stats and damage. Just a couple of lvls later. Wizzies provide no challenge to the Sorcerer overlords IMHO.


James Neal
Level 4
5 months ago

Don't forget quickened spell - cast a spell as a bonus action and use your full action to dodge, disengage, dash, shoot a crossbow, or even melee attack (if you have a good enough AC/HP). It's a personal semi-haste spell.

Cast Sunbeam, then every round after that you can use your full action to repeat Sunbeam and then Quicken another spell. The Sunbeam doesn't count as casting a non-cantrip spell because you're not casting it, you're just using your action to use it. AFAIK Sorcerers are the only class that have a way to do something like this (do two full, non-cantrip spells in the same round, sort of).

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5 months ago (edited)

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Birbin
Level 5
5 months ago

I used sorcerer and wizard together, it felt like cheating. They didn't deal much damage, but they buffed the paladin and the battle cleric, and used control spells most of the time.

Draconic sorcerer with twinning and careful spells is the best. I started with quickening spell, but it didn't worth it. Heightened Spell will be the third metamagic if I play again.