The Darkness is Neutral

picklesgrr
Level 9
4 months ago

I have not had the same issues with the dark as everyone else I have got all the way though with an all darkvision party and most of the way through with a no darkvision party. I have not noticed much difference in the experience at all. Darkness makes fighting more difficult for everyone but I can exploit that and the monster AI cannot.  I enjoy the tactical puzzle of lighting up my enemies while staying in the dark myself or, vs The Lizards, lighting up as much as possible. It does help if you have Dancing Lights to push out the illumination which means your wizard may be doing that instead of something more destructive. I have had a few issues though.

Sneaking with a torch lit. I could sneak into the goblins cave with a lighted torch which make no sense at all. Sneaking with lights in darkness/dim light should not work.  Once I attack them they stand around in the pools of light near their torches while I hide in the darkness and shoot them. They are not good at actively lighting me up, or ducking into unlit areas. Maybe they should get some "fire arrows" or similar that light up who they hit (or where they hit) as well as better tuned AI.

Fighting Undead in pitch dark. This is weird as many undead do not even have eyes but they are still penalised by the dark. They should all be upgraded to Superior Darkvision IMO. In one particular case I was able to hold a doorway with a Paladin while all my guys used magic missiles or save spells to mitigate the darkness and the undead floundered away with disadvantage. My very high attack bonus with the Green Mage archer also helped mitigate disadvantage too, especially vs zombies.

Light spell is much more limited than in TT. You can use it on an object then throw the object far away. You can also cast it on allies. Giving it a range (letting player cast it on an imaginary copper coin they chuck) would make it more useful like the TT game. This does make it much more like Dancing Lights - there is not much space for both of those spells to exist really but ho hum. 

You might also want to throw torches or do an Aragorn and fight with one in your off hand (or main hand). Dropping torches works, mostly - it seems to fail on sloped floors or stairs and is a free action.

Stabbey
Level 8
Kickstarter Backer
4 months ago

 Darkness makes fighting more difficult for everyone but I can exploit that and the monster AI cannot.

The problem is that this statement is false.

It does NOT make fighting more difficult for everyone.

Many enemies have a thing called "Superior Darkvision", which means they can see perfectly fine in darkness and dim light. Player characters can only have Darkvision, which doesn't do anything useful anymore.

Johannes
Level 10
4 months ago

Lighting and Darkvision are super unbalanced at the moment and there have been over a dozen posts on this issue since Early Access started. I'm assuming the devs are currently debating a fix, otherwise it seems weird that we haven't received any replies to this yet.


A hoopy frood who really knows where his towel is.

4 months ago

I agree: darkvision is an interesting mechanic that is easy but interesting to work around.

Your two main points are right on: more enemies should have superior darkvision (because it buffs them against players) and you shouldn't be able to sneak if you have a light object or torch. I would say no "cautious mode", but actually I want a torch if I'm looking for traps. I just think Solasta should hardcode carried light sources to draw aggro.

A few people are these forums are strangely defensive about this (like Stabbey). Basically, the 5e SRD light ruleset as written - with night darkness and cave darkness being the same - doesn't make sense. Solasta's approach is more fun, more realistic, and more balanced.

4 months ago

In 5e, character with darkvison don't have disadvantage on attack roll in darkness only for perception ( like for a human in the dim light).

Maybe Add torch, candles or other things to light up, in the area, to make light ( to help the character without darkvision).

For the Hide with a torch, I find this weird ether but, this need change the challenge in Dark places. 

Note enemy with darkvision still have disadvantage on perception, then even the enemies can have light on in the dungeons to spot intruder, but light down during the encounters. Just enough light to change the dark into dim light. 

Il need to replay, but I think even my elf in Solasta have disadvantage to attack in darkness, but I will test that on my next play.



Galadan
Level 7
Newsletter Link Kickstarter Backer
4 months ago

I agree: darkvision is an interesting mechanic that is easy but interesting to work around.

Your two main points are right on: more enemies should have superior darkvision (because it buffs them against players) and you shouldn't be able to sneak if you have a light object or torch. I would say no "cautious mode", but actually I want a torch if I'm looking for traps. I just think Solasta should hardcode carried light sources to draw aggro.

A few people are these forums are strangely defensive about this (like Stabbey). Basically, the 5e SRD light ruleset as written - with night darkness and cave darkness being the same - doesn't make sense. Solasta's approach is more fun, more realistic, and more balanced.


Well said.

 Theoretically casting firebolt etc. to light torch sconces/magical glow globes should also cause a change in enemy alert status.
I fear that may make things too punishing for the average player. The fact that you can scout and activate light sources is meant to be part of the combat "puzzle" I think.

It would be interesting and fun (for me, at least) if they implement the RAW, and humans are boned (It is black as pitch and you cannot see a thing without light, forget about disadvantage, you do not even SEE the enemy, let alone attempt to target them, and dark vision races get ambushed from 120 feet away by superior (120 foot) darkvision monsters, that they cannot see and target at all until they are within 60 feet. The howls would reach the heavens. :)

Cheers




Miles to go before I sleep

4 months ago

One way to improve the light system would be to do away with the dim light areas around light sources and instead have this whole area as lighted. Also the light spell should have a range out to which it can be cast and the lighted area would then spawn in an area around the spell centre was placed, this should then have a duration and stay in place unmovable until it runs out. Magical light sources should not affect darkvision in any way.

As regards darkvision i believe that any natural light source i.e. flames should render this ability mute when the darkvision user is in the area of natural light. Also spells that create a natural light source such as firebolt etc. should have the secondary effect of blinding a darkvision creature  for the round it is active.

Vision types should always have a 1 round readjustment period when entering and leaving light sources that affect them in any way causing the creature or character  to act as blind for that round.

I believe if these things could be implemented in some way then fighting in dark areas can be equalised somewhat.

Just my thoughts.

Trazzm
Level 8
Steam Link Newsletter Link Kickstarter Backer Armorsmith (Gold)
3 months ago

Their lighting rules are certainly NOT more realistic than the RAW rules. Here is one example that shows this:

If an attacker is targeting a creature in dim-light, it is the same penalty to their attack rolls as if they were targeting an invisible target. There is nothing realistic about this.

Mindbender
Level 5
Discord Link Newsletter Link
3 months ago

Perhaps if anything is changed by the devs, it could be available as a different option in the difficulty settings.  I personally like the way the lighting rules work.  I was never a big fan of the 5e RAW with regard to darkvision anyway.  I am still hoping they will consider adding a different healing option after a long rest.  A total regeneration of HP after a long rest is 5e RAW but the optional rules are much better. 

puck
Level 6
3 months ago


It would be interesting and fun (for me, at least) if they implement the RAW, and humans are boned (It is black as pitch and you cannot see a thing without light, forget about disadvantage, you do not even SEE the enemy, let alone attempt to target them, and dark vision races get ambushed from 120 feet away by superior (120 foot) darkvision monsters, that they cannot see and target at all until they are within 60 feet. The howls would reach the heavens. :)

Cheers

Except that is not how it works in 5E.  Humans vs a target in darkness is considered "blind" of that target, but this does not mean the human cannot attack them.  The human still knows where they are and can attack with disadvantage.  If the target is in dim light, the human has no disadvantage on attacks.  Whereas in Solasta, the human *still* has disadvantage even in dim light as well as the Darkvision races having disadvantage in dim light.  Solasta's vision is actually more punishing than D&D.

Then there is the Rogue's perspective.  If ANYTHING imposes disadvantage on him, he loses his Sneak Attack from advantage.  (yes, he can still get the adjacency thing.  Not talking about that)  In D&D any race rogue can hide and get off their Sneak Attack in dim light, and Darkvision races can get it off in darkness.  In Solasta every race MUST have the target in bright light to even entertain the thought of getting their advantage Sneak Attack.  Just what a rogue wants.  Lots of bright light everywhere.  

puck
Level 6
3 months ago (edited)

Actually, I'm just going to copy what I posted in the other thread since I think it is a little clearer than what I just said above.

I'm begrudgingly OK with the current lighting/vision system, but I would very much rather they used the actual 5E lighting/vision which few seem to understand.  

Normal vision:

  1. Darkness = Heavily obscured = Blinded.  Does NOT mean you don't know they are there.  You can still make attacks with disadvantage though they are not a "target you can see" for spells. Creatures in darkness have advantage against you.
  2. Dim = Lightly obscured = Disadvantage on perception.  No bearing on attacks.
  3. Bright = No penalties

Darkvision:

  1. Darkness beyond range = Heavily obscured = Blinded. See above.
  2. Darkness in range = Lightly obscured = Disadvantage on perception.  No bearing on attacks.  Additionally, no color vision.
  3. Dim in range = No penalties
  4. Bright = No penalties

So, dim light is no big deal regardless of your vision.  I can understand why the devs don't want humans standing in inky blackness, but they actually shouldn't be even in darkness.  They are aware of their surroundings, they just have a hard time dealing with it.  They can still "see" in a sense, but quite poorly.  Unless they manage their light, of course.  

So yeah, you pick a race with no Darkvision and you have to manage your light just like you have to do now with EVERY race if you want to stave off the disadvantage/advantage issues.  Though, honestly even for them dim light is more punishing in the current system.  It's just doubly punishing on those with Darkvision.  It's certainly a hateful environment for Rogues with Darkvision.