Rewarding "murder hobos"

Ilxuss
Level 5
3 months ago (edited)

Do you mean something like other interactions with this NPC?

For example. But it could be anything really - maybe revealing some interesting bit of lore in dialogue (even if it doesn't carry further consequences). Something that would make you think that it wasn't a wasted opportunity that you didn't fight. Even something not-beneficial like making an enemy stronger further down the story could be something interesting to see or maybe challenge yourself.

For now, the previous bosses in the dark castle don't even care about you talking to their master after they let you through. We could start off with something like an opportunity to tell them about your encounter.

Galadan
Level 7
Newsletter Link Kickstarter Backer
3 months ago

Does the elf lady not reward you for "dealing with"  Aksha?

(I have either never succeeded with her diplomacy check, or chosen not to use it. (A necromancer giving you a free pass to deal with a creature like Aksha is likely to betray you at some point, was my feeling, so...I chose the path of war, that was even more true with Aksha in my opinion)

The Master, I could see negotiating with, he has great knowledge that could be helpful to both the party, and any faction that they favour. (except the Church that hates undead of course)

I fear that may be largely beyond the scope/budget of this game though.

A possibility, every so often, could be that somebody like the Master could reward diplomacy with an item that improves faction reputation? (that will not stop warmongers like myself from getting max reputation, but will mean slightly earlier access to faction items etc for the talky people, and visa versa in some instances, just to keep people honest.)

Cheers



Miles to go before I sleep

Strannik
Level 9
3 months ago

Does the elf lady not reward you for "dealing with"  Aksha?

Didn't have opportunity to check it but it would be nice to have.

J
Level 7
Kickstarter Backer
3 months ago

I like the combat and dungeon crawling focus of Solasta, so I'm fine with it being a more on the murder hobo end of the spectrum when compared to other D&D vidya. However, given that they did do a great job of implementing skills and character creation it would be nice to be able to get greater use out of those skills. More opportunities to use skills to grant combat advantages, along with increased risks for failing checks, would be neat to see.

picklesgrr
Level 9
3 months ago

Does the elf lady not reward you for "dealing with"  Aksha?

Didn't have opportunity to check it but it would be nice to have.


She does not. I could not find any way to interact with her after killing Aksha. The interactions and cutscenes in The Bone Keep felt a bit unpolished (cutscene enemies spawning on the corpses of the ones you just killed etc) and I assume, and hope, unfinished.

Galadan
Level 7
Newsletter Link Kickstarter Backer
3 months ago



She does not. I could not find any way to interact with her after killing Aksha. The interactions and cutscenes in The Bone Keep felt a bit unpolished (cutscene enemies spawning on the corpses of the ones you just killed etc) and I assume, and hope, unfinished.


That is...unfortunate. I also hope that this will change. It is reasonable to assume that many, if not most players who choose to negotiate with the elf lady will return after killing Aksha, or betraying elf lady and coming to kill her FOR Aksha. :)
I think that, when the Aksha fight is fixed (Her and her brood not getting stuck at the bottom of the stairs) lots of players will go back to rest after that fight.

It would also be good if there was a chance (maybe depending on party HP totals) that the elf lady turned on them as they looked weak enough after the Aksha fight to destroy. (and a stern lesson on the perils of negotiating with people who create undead for a living (no pun intended))

Once again, only if time, developer intent and budget allows.

Cheers


Miles to go before I sleep

3 months ago (edited)

I actually have a different issue with the Mardracht encounter. My second party either had intimidation or diplomacy too high and no matter what dialogue option I chose it always ended peacefully. There should always be a dialogue option for a party to force combat especially as this preference is in the background options for characters. 

starkiller
Level 3
Kickstarter Backer
3 months ago

I never saw Aksha. She just never spawned. Went to her "lair" and voila, no one around. I also couldn't blow out the windows either as for some reason lighting torch sconces and blowing out windows with Fire Bolt stopped working randomly.

ekimami
Level 6
3 months ago

It's unfortunate that they're taking the easy road with this. But small team, low budget, not really time to design all of these branching paths -- it is understandable.

Ilxuss
Level 5
3 months ago (edited)

It's unfortunate that they're taking the easy road with this. But small team, low budget, not really time to design all of these branching paths -- it is understandable.

I wouldn't mind if there was no choice if the alternative is to have a meaningless choice. It would be easier to balance and persuasion options could instead serve to gain some advantage in form of lore or loot (goad the villain to reveal his plan or treasure location) or maybe gain some advantage in battle (intimidate enemies to get a surprise round or do something to gain better positioning - as we are forced to fight after a cutscene).

Giving a meaningless choice will only serve as a detriment when people will expect to get something that will be nowhere to be found. I would advise something like this instead:

You meet a vampire and have 4 options:

  • just attack - the default option (always nice to have instead of hoping to fail a roll);
  • persuasion - try a diplomatic solution - it fails but the vampire reveals the location of the noteworthy tome in the vast library that you wouldn't otherwise find - it's a book that gives you as the player additional lore and which you can exchange for a reputation boost with one of the factions. 
  • deception - a bluff that you want to sell out your companions in which case you learn of the location of an additional hidden treasure chest you can now find. 
  • intimidation - it initiates combat but as a result, you get a surprise round. And if we feel it's too little then maybe the vampire gets surprised because it wanted to get its +1 dagger that she will drop after the battle.

You get to fight in all scenarios but now you know that you gain something by passing a check.

silverblade
Level 7
2 months ago

This is why in old versions, XP was tied to treasure.  It didn't matter how you got it, as long as you got it, you got rewarded both loot and XP.

Reylliam
Level 4
2 months ago

What if the diplo rewards were fewer (because you can't tear through their secret chests, etc.) but a tier more valuable?  The NPC could say "I am so glad we could come to an agreement, please take this [permanent magic item for people 2 levels higher]"  So a level 5 group get something they normally wouldn't see until level 7, etc.  Or perhaps a couple or three things based 1 level higher than the treasure in the setting.  Thus, the reduced amount of treasure is offset by the uptick in power it gives.


1 month ago

This has been on my mind since I successfully Intimidated my way past the entire Aksha fight.

I definitely think that choices should have consequences, and picking some options should shut you out of others. You shouldn't get to do everything in the game - if nothing else, that way you have replay value.

But I'm stuck about what exactly to do with this. It felt a little too powerful to literally just completely talk my way out of a fight because of a single die roll and still get a ton of XP for it - but it also felt deeply unsatisfying. I think the main problem is that it's not an actual choice, because the game is linear so no matter what you have to get past Aksha somehow. Intimidating saved me a headache of a fight, but also the fun of a difficult fight. Eh.

What would be cool is if, as Ilxuss suggested, the various social options each have different consequences. You get something for the check, but it doesn't totally bypass the encounter.

Or, maybe one of the options does bypass the encounter, but creates a different fight elsewhere. I noticed that the woman in the Laboratory who told you to kill Aksha can't be interacted with again - but maybe if you let Aksha live, she becomes hostile to you. Or if Aksha lives, she shows up later to fight you in a different context.

I don't have a specific clear answer, but all I know is it felt kinda forced all around.