invisibility with spirit guardians

IXI
Level 14
1 year ago

not sure if this is a bug but it definitely feels like i'm cheating.  i have a cleric with a decent stealth and i've been able to sneak around a bit with spirit guardians active and do a little damage before getting spotted but i decided to try it with invisibility and it is basically a guarantee kill without even starting combat, for example, i was able to kill everything not flying in the outside areas of the shield without really even fighting.

the AI should do something if a foe is taking damage for several consecutive rounds     


yellow flower of courage

IXI
Level 14
1 year ago

note, i'm using the 2nd level invisibility 


yellow flower of courage

zas
Level 8
11 months ago

Well, that's something allowed by rules.
Basically the spell breaks only if you attack or cast a spell, not if the spell is already active.

The 5th edition description of this spell is rather short (https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Invisibility), but 3.5edition gives more details:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibility.htm

"

   The creature or object touched becomes invisible, vanishing from sight, even from darkvision. If the recipient is a creature carrying gear, that vanishes, too. If you cast the spell on someone else, neither you nor your allies can see the subject, unless you can normally see invisible things or you employ magic to do so.

   Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible.

   Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as stepping in a puddle). The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. (Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions.) Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area. 

"

So, even though it seems cheating to you, that's a legit use to me: in your case, guardians are summoned creatures and they do harm, not you.

zas
Level 8
11 months ago (edited)

Though regarding this I noticed an issue. In Lost Valley I tried to clear an outpost with this tactic, it worked well, and yes it feels weird to be able to do so, and that's not very fun.
But it didn't trigger any combat, and since there was a quest related to this, the quest didn't trigger either.

But the main issue to me: it didn't trigger a fight at all, and IMHO it should. I consider this as a bug.

When the first enemy is hit by guardians, the game should toggle in combat mode (rounds/turns), it would limit a lot abusing this.

Veis
Visitor
1 month ago

In continuation of the Zas's post.

The mechanic itself to combine invisibility and spell effects, even if they deal damage, is not a bug (from my experience with DND 5e). The defect lies precisely in the fact that the combat mode is not activated. This is a problem because:

- the player does not get experience for 'battle'

- if you leave the location and then return, then the enemies defeated outside the battle mode will again be in their places. (tried in a secret complex in the lost valley). This turns this defect into a source of endless loot. And the armor is worth a lot...

In my understanding, invisibility is now generally broken. For example:

- theft in invisible mode does not lead to consequences (except for reputation loss in some cases)

- invisibility allows you to contact hostile characters and even receive tasks from them. (same research complex)

- even if you run through the enemies without caution mode, they will be fine. Even if all PCs are in heavy armor. It's noisy! For example, in DnD you can detect someone invisible by footprints or noise and attack him (with a disadvantage). So that character have to be 'caution' (every round). I think NPCs can make a Wisdom check if an invisible player does something loudly.