I love the lighting system, don't change

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Nortar
Level 8
Kickstarter Backer Mayor's Ring (Bronze) Weaponsmith (Bronze) Armorsmith (Diamond)
3 months ago

You can tell that the people who like the current light system do not play D&D 5

And I can tell you don't know what you're talking about.
Don't presume and belittle other people's experience only because you have different opinions.
As for action economy, I cast light on my weapons out of combat, and there was not a single encounter in Solasta where I would have had to recast it.

ekimami
Level 6
3 months ago

You can tell that the people who like the current light system do not play D&D 5, otherwise they would realize that A) there is no penalty on dim light in the rules and B) D&D 5 has a finely tuned action economy, which is ruined by constant light management. Your characters have a set amount of actions in one turn. Having to activate light sources, reapply light effects, and run after enemies who have moved out of light radius, all of that costs actions and movement. You could spend these actions fighting instead of managing a resource that does not even exist in standard rules.

The amount of malarkey in this post is staggering. I've been DMing 5e since launch, have 2.5k ish hours in Roll20 mastering / playing *only* 5e and I like Solasta's lighting system. I'm pretty sure people who like the lighting system *know* the 5e ruleset very well and like the lighting system because it's an interesting idea, with tons of potential, and translates the game well enough to make tactical decisions and resource management matter much more than it does on tabletop.

3 months ago (edited)

You can tell that the people who like the current light system do not play D&D 5, otherwise they would realize that A) there is no penalty on dim light in the rules and B) D&D 5 has a finely tuned action economy, which is ruined by constant light management. Your characters have a set amount of actions in one turn. Having to activate light sources, reapply light effects, and run after enemies who have moved out of light radius, all of that costs actions and movement. You could spend these actions fighting instead of managing a resource that does not even exist in standard rules.


And this is a good example of why 5E purism is a bad reason for changing the Lighting system. The idea that it's wrong because "that's not how it is in table top" while ignoring how it works in the current video game world, because if it's not "exactly like this thing I'm used to" there's no way it can work. Thanks for the clear example on why this line of thinking should be ignored.

Never mind that having a background in 5E (I've played more than enough to be familiar with the Action Economy) has nothing to do with evaluating a system made for a specific game.

puck
Level 6
3 months ago (edited)

I'm begrudgingly OK with the current lighting/vision system, but I would very much rather they used the actual 5E lighting/vision which few seem to understand.  

Normal vision:

  1. Darkness = Heavily obscured = Blinded.  Does NOT mean you don't know they are there.  You can still make attacks with disadvantage though they are not a "target you can see" for spells. Creatures in darkness have advantage against you.
  2. Dim = Lightly obscured = Disadvantage on perception.  No bearing on attacks.
  3. Bright = No penalties

Darkvision:

  1. Darkness beyond range = Heavily obscured = Blinded. See above.
  2. Darkness in range = Lightly obscured = Disadvantage on perception. No bearing on attacks.  Additionally, no color vision.
  3. Dim in range = No penalties
  4. Bright = No penalties

So, dim light is no big deal regardless of your vision.  I can understand why the devs don't want humans standing in inky blackness, but they actually shouldn't be even in darkness.  They are aware of their surroundings, they just have a hard time dealing with it.  They can still "see" in a sense, but quite poorly.  Unless they manage their light, of course.  

So yeah, you pick a race with no Darkvision and you have to manage your light just like you have to do now with EVERY race if you want to stave off the disadvantage/advantage issues.  Though, honestly even for them dim light is more punishing in the current system.  It's just doubly punishing on those with Darkvision.  It's certainly a hateful environment for Rogues with Darkvision.  


Mindbender
Level 5
Discord Link Newsletter Link
3 months ago

You can tell that the people who like the current light system do not play D&D 5

And I can tell you don't know what you're talking about.
Don't presume and belittle other people's experience only because you have different opinions.
As for action economy, I cast light on my weapons out of combat, and there was not a single encounter in Solasta where I would have had to recast it.

EXACTLY!

Mindbender
Level 5
Discord Link Newsletter Link
3 months ago

You can tell that the people who like the current light system do not play D&D 5, otherwise they would realize that A) there is no penalty on dim light in the rules and B) D&D 5 has a finely tuned action economy, which is ruined by constant light management. Your characters have a set amount of actions in one turn. Having to activate light sources, reapply light effects, and run after enemies who have moved out of light radius, all of that costs actions and movement. You could spend these actions fighting instead of managing a resource that does not even exist in standard rules.


And this is a good example of why 5E purism is a bad reason for changing the Lighting system. The idea that it's wrong because "that's not how it is in table top" while ignoring how it works in the current video game world, because if it's not "exactly like this thing I'm used to" there's no way it can work. Thanks for the clear example on why this line of thinking should be ignored.

Never mind that having a background in 5E (I've played more than enough to be familiar with the Action Economy) has nothing to do with evaluating a system made for a specific game.


Couldn't agree more

puck
Level 6
3 months ago

While I agree that simple 5E purism isn't really the best foundation for an argument, I still think the 5E rules are better for lighting and vision.  Especially since the crux around which they changed it in the game is flawed.  They stated: "When we tried to emulate that in-game, it was excruciatingly frustrating - you knew an enemy was right in front of you (because your dwarf can see him), but your human would just be unable to target him because he was in the Darkness. "  

Except that Darkness does NOT mean you cannot target them (Except of course, spells that are specifically worded "a target you can see").  A human can absolutely target something in darkness and attack with disadvantage.  Just like dim light imposes on them right now in Solasta.  

So, normal vision is actually worse off to fix a problem that didn't exist in the first place.

Granted, given this is a video game, and you as a player have only visual cues to simulate what your character must suss out via other means, the player will need to actually see things on the screen that the character would only "know was there .. roughly".  So the player still gets to see the lovely art design, but the character is at a disadvantage to attack the thing in darkness.   


3 months ago

I had a bit of fun with the light managing mechanics for a while, but fights in the Dark Castle became a little formulaic for me. Maintain concentration on Dancing Lights to light up the enemy back line. Light spell on, or wizard as a torch bearer behind, the Fighter, so they can use their shield or two-handed weapon. It was a little easier or harder depending on spell choice or class/sub-class composition and the overall arrangement of combatants on the field.

I understand what the devs were trying to do, and I think it was kind of cool, it just began to wear on me after a while.

Saltykrug
Level 4
2 months ago

I don't see how removing mechanics and strategic depth from the game would make it better.  I'm trying to imagine how the game would be if I could ignore dim light and it looks boring and without challenge.  It shouldn't be easy to shoot arrows at mysterious figures in the darkness while raiding a necromancer's lair.  If you change this, allow for an option in game settings to keep it how it is now.

I fully agree with this post. I loved the challenge of opening windows, lighting the sconces on the walls and putting light cantrips on melee weapons to light up the battle for my ranged in the back.  Please don't take this mechanic out, it really makes the game more immersive and prevents it from being murder hobo central.  I'm really thrilled of what I have played so far in the game.  I am hoping that someone takes the official modules and campaigns and adapts them to this game.  Huge undertaking but I must say you all have done a damned fine job so far.

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