[Balance] Class & Archetypes

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Kalshane
Level 7
Kickstarter Backer
1 month ago

I agree that the Green Mage needs something more. Should probably be longbow and shortbow proficiency (otherwise why not just use a crossbow? The default wizard is supposed to be proficient in light crossbow, though doesn't currently seem to be in the game) and/or extra attack at 6th level.

It has those things its just that you stop using it at 5 when your cantrip levels up. Tough call to fix.. probably best if they add an elemental dice that functions like Sneak Attack or Hunters mark.. or just give them Hunters Mark. 

As mentioned, they do have access to Hunter's Mark.

I didn't see Longbow proficiency or extra attack on the feature list for the subclass (I have a high elf green mage, so the only proficiency I got at 2nd level was light armor.) If they have extra attack, in particular, that would help prevent Cantrips from being superior (at least until 11th level, anyway.)

mnacey
Level 3
Steam Link Newsletter Link
1 month ago

I agree that the Green Mage needs something more. Should probably be longbow and shortbow proficiency (otherwise why not just use a crossbow? The default wizard is supposed to be proficient in light crossbow, though doesn't currently seem to be in the game) and/or extra attack at 6th level.

It has those things its just that you stop using it at 5 when your cantrip levels up. Tough call to fix.. probably best if they add an elemental dice that functions like Sneak Attack or Hunters mark.. or just give them Hunters Mark. 

Or delve into the Arcane Archer like archetype (though not super strong) more than a Ranger themed one. Give a reason to keep using a bow after level 5.

picklesgrr
Level 8
1 month ago

Level 1-4 (er 2-4)  the Green Mage is fine. Like a Ranger with more spells and fewer HP.  Probably mine was a little better than average being a longbow using Elf with high dex. They felt like the highest DPS character and they hardly ever got hit so mitigating low HP (12 CON).  The class is better suited to elves which is fine - classes can have better synergies with some races than others. Given there are so few subclasses more versatility would be nice mind, 

I have obviously not played much beyond that. 

At level 5 - 10 the bow is not really worse then Firebolt just different. You can get a +1 Shortbow around then which nets you +3 to hit compared to just using a spell. The damage is D6+5, assuming 18 Dex so about 80% of the 2d10 from Firebolt. Those effects more or less cancel. Adding Hunter's Mark lets you do more damage with more accuracy using a bow compared to Firebolt but at the cost of a spell.  And the hidden cost of pumping Dex not Int.

That is really running to stay still so it needs something else to improve it and that may be Magic Arrow at level 6. It's hard to say for sure without testing. An extra attack would overpower the archetype - ranger sustained damage plus wizard burst.

I am more concerned about the other archetypes - Shock Arcanist looks really strong and Loremaster offers things you do not need - maybe if spell academic let you prepare more spells instead of learning more but it still offers little at low level. (note I am bad at using consumables so may be undervaluing that) 

dunehunter
Level 5
1 month ago (edited)
  • Class: Paladin
  • Archetype: Oath of Tirmar
  • Feature / Spell / Whatever: Oath spells
  • Power:  Oath Spells are weirdly picked
  • Feedback: 
    • Oath of Motherland has some nice fire-theme oath spells, but the picks for Tirmar are mixed weirdly imo. 
    • We know that Tirmar paladins are obsessed with creatures called Sorr-Akkath, which looks like lizardmen. So I think they shall get spells that can work efficiently against these creature. Probably gives them Spider Climb because Sorr-Akkath can climb on the wall at will. 
    • Also some high level lizardmen we saw in the game can fly, so probably gives Tirmar pal the Fly spell too. 
    • I'm not sure if these lizardmen are humanoid, so not sure if hold person works on them.
  • Suggestion (if any)
    • Lvl 1 spells: Shield, Hunter's Mark.
    • Lvl 2 spells: Hold Person(if it works on them), Spider Walk. 
    • Lvl 3 spells: Fly, Daylight/Slowness.

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  • Class: Wizard
  • Archetype: Greenmage
  • Feature / Spell / Whatever: Feature
  • Power: Too weak after lvl 5
  • Feedback: After reach lvl 5 when your cantrips upgrade, the ranged attacks feels a bit weak since they don't have access to extra attacks. But giving them extra attack is too powerful imo because it will be a mega arcane archer class then.
  • Suggestion (if any): Maybe give them extra damage equal to proficiency bonus? The ranged attack will then keep on par with cantrips. So lvl 5 cantrips does 2d10 dam = 11, and lvl 5 ranged attacks does 1d8 + 4(18 dex)+ 3 = 11.5  plus archery style and hunter's mark.

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  • Class: Wizard
  • Archetype: Shock Arcanist
  • Feature / Spell / Whatever: Arcane Warfare too powerful
  • Power: Too powerful
  • Feedback: This archtype feels a bit too powerful for me, 3 MM to 4 is like a 33% increase in DPR. Same as scorching ray.
  • Suggestion (if any): Limit the times that u can increase the spell slot by maybe wizard's INT bonus, So a 20 INT wizard can upgrade his spell 5 times a day.

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  • Class: Ranger
  • Archetype: Marksman
  • Feature / Spell / Whatever: Reaction shot
  • Power: too weak
  • Feedback: This feature feels too occasional to me. I can count the times my ranger got shot by one hand.
  • Suggestion (if any): I'm not sure about this one. Maybe add some extra cool features.
J
Level 7
Kickstarter Backer
1 month ago

Green Mage is fantastic and I'd be really surprised if something similar to that doesn't start showing up in tabletop campaigns. Lore Wizard sounds good -- advantage on useful skills -- but in practice I found it really underwhelming when compared to the other two subclasses. I don't think that Shock and Green need nerfs, but I do think that unless Lore has some rapidly increased functionality mid to late game then it needs a hard buff of some sort, maybe metamagic if Sorcs aren't getting that.

Trazzm
Level 7
Steam Link Newsletter Link Kickstarter Backer Armorsmith (Gold)
1 month ago (edited)
  • Class: Ranger
  • Archetype: Marksman
  • Feature / Spell / Whatever: Reaction Shot and general archery issues
  • Power: very weak
  • Feedback: Reaction Shot doesn't trigger enough (3 times in my first playthrough) and ranged combatants are much more significantly nerfed by the lighting rules than melee characters.
  • Suggestion (if any): 3rd Level feature: A Marksman can ignore lighting penalties while fighting with a ranged weapon. Change "Reaction Shot" to apply to ranged attacks against any of the Ranger's party members that the ranger can see, instead of just themself. 
Ilxuss
Level 5
1 month ago (edited)


  • Class: Wizard 
  • Archetype: Loremaster
  • Feature: Keen Mind and Spell Academic, specialization in general
  • Power: too weak
  • Feedback: 

Keen Mind:

Scroll and potion crafting time and cost are halved:   I generally agree with what Ragnarok said (https://forums.solasta-game.com/replies/1753) but will also add that crafting works strangely as of now (doesn't always consume resources) and, generally, we have finite resources (so it's not that we can make too much). And I think that resource cost reduction doesn't work right now at all.

Suggestion: Due to crafting being bugged, it's hard to properly appraise it now. I'll just remind you to not forget items with crafting resource requirement 1 - either make it consume half a resource, give an option to create two of the item for a cost of one, or double all resource gains, halve the prices, and double availability in shops. 

Advantage on Arcana, History, and Investigation ability checks. Advantage to copy spells into your spellbook:   It's nice to have but that advantage over other specializations can be easily negated through some mild save-scumming - and also it doesn't feel like gaining anything (copy spells advantage feels especially like gaining nothing due to save-scumming but it's not that we often get multiple checks during a single dialogue to make ability checks hard to save-scum as well)

I'll tackle suggestion in a moment. In short, it would be to merge this with Spell Academic.

Spell Academic:

You learn one additional spell every time you gain a level:   Once again it doesn't feel like gaining anything - other specializations can also potentially learn all spells through scribing and in case of Greenmage he can potentially learn more spells (as a side note I think Greenmage should learn all his druidic spells during the level up as priests do). Also, it's not that all the spells are equally useful - like spider climb - sounds useful but the game limitations and usage limitations/difficulties make it almost useless. Additionally, since we get Spell Academic late, you don't feel like gaining enough of an advantage over other specializations. And it doesn't do anything combat-related - it's not that it removes preparation limitations so those extra spells are likely to just sit in the spellbook unutilized. 

Suggestion: make it part of Keen Mind - this will allow you to gain spell versatility advantage early when it's arguably most important. 


As for the 6th level feat, I have two suggestions - either add something like Ragnarok suggested - the ability to cast an extra spell at the highest level you possess once per long rest or maybe once per short rest (or maybe something like intelligence+proficiency divided by 2 rounded down? I mean Shock Arcanist can cast all his spells as +1 level if he wishes so and damage spells happen to often be the most useful to cast. In an edge scenario it's like having, say 4 second-level spells and 2 third-level spells instead of level 1 and level 2 spells. 

As an additional suggestion to Ragnarok's idea, I'd add the ability to cast any spell you've learned as these bonus spells instead of only those you have prepared - this way if you unexpectedly find yourself in need to cast counterspell you didn't prepare earlier you could do so at the cost of this bonus charge. It would also synergize with Spell Academic part of the class that you'd get at the 2nd level. It could look like this:

Spell Recall - Years of academic studies and mental preparations gave you the ability to recall any spell you've previously studied in a time of need. You get a number of charges equal to your proficiency bonus + intelligence bonus divided by 3 and rounded down Ex. at 11th level (+4 proficiency bonus) with intelligence score 19 (+4 modifier) you'd have 2 charges. Those charges regenerate after a long rest. Each charge allows you to cast any spell you have in your spellbook at the highest level available to you just as if you had it prepared.

We could maybe add that one charge regenerates during the short rest.

Or you could decide to focus on the crafting element and add something like this instead:

Scroll Savant - Your studies of the ancient lore and scrolls gave you the ability to instantly recall the contents of scrolls you possess without looking at them. Whenever you cast a spell from a scroll you can choose to use an action one degree faster than what would be usually required. Instead of 10-minute casting, you'd need 1 minute, instead of 1-minute casting you can utilize standard action. Instead of a standard action, you can utilize bonus action, and scrolls requiring a bonus action can be cast without consuming any action. You are still limited by the usage of inventory actions. You can always opt to use a normal scroll casting time.

In an edge scenario, it would allow you to cast one fireball as a normal action, an additional fireball as a bonus action from the scroll, use inventory action to put a misty step scroll into a slot, and use it as a free action - all in one turn. You'd be limited by scrolls/money/crafting but you could shine that one time a boss battle happens.

ekimami
Level 6
1 month ago (edited)

Class: Wizard

Archetype: Green Mage

Feature / Spell / Whatever: Magic Arrow

Power: too weak

Feedback: Change Magic Arrow to a Spell (this is basically ensnaring strike from the PHB). This feature is interesting in theory, but it lasts too short a time on a MAD character to make it worthwhile.

Suggestions:

1. Give Greenmages the extra attack feature at level 6. Cantrip damage can't compete with 2 attacks and hunters mark + magical bow and arrows, so your Evocation Wizard shines where he's supposed to, by casting those war spells at a higher level which is already bonkers (and fun!). Additionally, since they have a faster spell progression than Rangers, they get to access the cool ranger spells like Conjure Animals, Swift Quiver and Lightning Arrow much, much earlier than Rangers themselves can, allowing many unique builds. Rangers still enjoy the benefits of favored enemy, choice of Natural Explorer terrain, and flexibility in fighting styles, better proficiencies, and (I'm assuming down the line?) an animal companion if Beast Master is ever implemented.

2. Change Barkskin from the spell list, as it is useless. In EA all you need is Mage Armor, as even Leather Armor +1 is worse than having MA up on your mage. Later on when you can acquire Studded Leather +1 for the equivalent in AC you can drop MA. Why would I use a 2nd level spell that occupies my concentration slot to give 16 AC to myself or someone else when a level 1 spell does about the same but better and cheaper? Even though Barkskin is extremely flavorful for the archetype, this spell will go unused in the vast majority of situations. Even simple spells of the same level like Silence or Spike Growth can change the flow or tide of a battle by themselves. You'll never go into a battle thinking "Man, I wish I had Barkskin right now".

lindad7999
Level 2
1 month ago
  • Class: Fighters
  • Archetype: Fighters in general but less so Spellblade
  • Feature / Spell / Whatever: Lack of them
  • Power: Lack of options
  • Feedback: This is a sore spot for 5E in my opinion and an opportunity to give Fighters some interactivity and a good way to give the Archetypes some more nuance. Spellblade is great, gives you a ton of buttons to play with to augment your playstyle (access to Light alone is huge for Humans). I think Champion and Mountaineer and whatever else you have planned should get a button or two to help distinguish their playstyles with actives in addition to their passive bonuses.
  • Suggestion (if any): Each archetype gets one per short rest- Power Attack/Shield Bash/Cleave/Trip/Free Reaction on Falling-Prone enemies etc. Just plunder DnD or Pathfinder for some good ones. 

Do to the fact the SRD is so strict on what they can and can't use they can't just rummage through and pick something that would possible get them in court for copyrighted material. I wish they made enough to buy the full license from WoTC so they could use whatever they wanted.

  • Class: Rogue
  • Archetype: All
  • Feature / Spell / Whatever: Sneak Attack
  • Power: Interface improvement
  • Feedback: Rogues have an unnecessary burden of knowledge compared to other classes in predicting the outcome of their attacks
  • Suggestion (if any): "Sneak Attack!" when you highlight an attack option would be more than enough, it will help the player learn the conditions required for sneak attacking and help make it more fluid rather than having a scenario which looks like it satisfies Sneak conditions but then just doesnt.

I agree with your take on this one.

Spiffykat404
Level 2
1 month ago

Just finished the game, all I have is below.


Class: Wizard
Archetype: Shock
Feature / Spell / Whatever: Arcane Recovery
Power: too weak
Feedback: Automatically chooses the highest spellslot to recover.
Suggestion (if any): Able to choose what spell slots to recover.

Arcane Recovery (SRD OGL 5.1): You have learned to regain some of your magical energy by studying your spellbook. Once per day when you finish a short rest, you can choose expended spell slots to recover. The spell slots can have a combined level that is equal to or less than half your wizard level (rounded up), and none of the slots can be 6th level or higher.
For example, if you’re a 4th-­‐‑level wizard, you can recover up to two levels worth of spell slots. You can recover either a 2nd-­‐‑level spell slot or two 1st-­‐‑level spell slots.




FOR GONDOR!

Heldred
Visitor
1 month ago
  • Class: Wizard
  • Archetype: (any, but let's focus on Shock Arcanist)
  • Feature / Spell / Whatever: Magic Missile 
  • Power: too strong (levels 1-6)
  • Feedback: All of the classes are fairly well balanced (good job), but Magic Missile is too powerful because of its range and "auto-hit" benefit.  How can Level 1 spell be too powerful?  It is because of:
    • the "hit-or-miss" mechanics of random dice rolling (chance is ignored entirely by Magic Missile)
    • compounded further by the strict enforcement of "low light" disadvantages making "chance" a greater issue (darkness can be overcome, but Magic Missile doesn't need to do anything to hit)
    • the advantages of ranged combat, especially the impact of multi-dimensional terrain on melee tactical decisions
    • the ability for certain mobs to disengage after attacking, only adds to the strength of ranged combat
  • Suggestion (if any): Rather than nerf the spell,  I believe EVERY class needs a Magic Missile like ability.  For example, a Paladin's Smite should be auto-hit, the Ranger's chosen foe should be auto-hit, the Rogues sneak attack (under more restrictive conditions) should be auto-hit, etc.   For the record, every hard encounter (so far) can be trivialized with Magic Missile.  Add in the fact that Magic Missile can be made into a scroll (or wand available), it really impacts low-level scaling.   In short, don't nerf, Magic Missile, just make all classes have an auto-hit ability (with limited charges per long rest).  Thanks again for a great game!
shout27
Level 4
1 week ago
  • Class: FEAT
  • Feature / Spell / Whatever: Might of the Iron Legion
  • Power: too weak 
  • Feedback: Just, comes across as the weakest of the available feats.
  • Suggestion (if any): Have Armor Master give its +1 AC AND the next stage of Armor with the requirement that you need at least Light Armor proficiency to pick it. So Light Armor gives Medium Armor Pro, Medium gives Heavy, and Heavy just gets +1 AC and that's why you're getting the feat.
  • For Might of the Iron Legion, have it give +1 Strength, one weapon prof of the player's choice, and Shield Proficiency (for something that should be easy to teach, there are remarkably few ways to pick up shield prof in the game).


  • Class: Fighter/Thief
  • Archetype: Caster sub-class 
  • Feature / Spell / Whatever: School access
  • Suggestion (if any): Just let the player pick the four schools that they want access to for the character. 
Baraz
Level 10
Steam Link Newsletter Link Kickstarter Backer Weaponsmith (Bronze)
5 days ago (edited)

Feedback about the Shadow Tamer (Ranger subclass selected at level 3) : 

I have been re-creating a tabletop party in the game and so the Ranger, conceptually, was naturally supposed to be the Shadow Tamer (we are a bunch of Dwarves use to exploring dark tunnels). Except the bonuses given by that subclass are just too subpar in comparison to the other Ranger subclasses.  So I sadly intend to choose another instead. 

Shadow Tamer is very contextual or situational : 

  • bonus against creatures sensitive to light (not really common I should think) ; 
  • bonus on Dex saves only and if in Dim light (which can be super common). <<< That one is not bad.

While you can instead have (in order of more common to less common triggers) : 

  • Slayer (Hunter): bonus damage very very often, that is as soon as creature has 1 HP damage already.
    ( in practice, that is almost every turn in combat )
  • Horde Breaker (Hunter): once in a while have an extra attack if you drop one enemy near an adjacent enemy. 
    ( in practice, that is easily every other turn in the first rounds of combat )
  • Marksmen : Reaction to ranged attack/spell within 10 feet AND gives proficiency with a Kit (Herbalism or Poisoner).
    ( more tricky to get in the right situation, but you also get a useful Kit like making poisons )
  • Giant Killer : Reaction to attack from a Large creature, which is somewhat common in D&D.
    ( almost every turn if a creature is Large )

If I were to chose Shadow Tamer, for the concept, my Ranger would be much much weaker and boring in comparison to other Ranger options. 

Suggestion for a revised Shadow Tamer

  • Blind-Fighting : can sense things near-by (15 feet/5m) without relying on vision and therefore can fight without penalties in any darkness (aka blindsight 15 feet).  Comment: at first sight, some may think this is only OK or ordinary, but that means that kind of ranger could sometimes fight creatures in total darkness, fogcloud and other forms of vision loss (while foes would have penalties most probably).  This feature is OK considering the rather strong features of the other Ranger subclasses. 
  • Tunnel Wisdom (same as current: advantage on Dex Saves when in Dim light or Darkness). 

( I deleted the other post after I discovered this specific thread )


Steam profile : https://steamcommunity.com/id/baraz/

TomReneth
Level 3
2 days ago
  • Class: Rogue
  • Archetype: Darkweaver
  • Feature / Spell / Whatever: Class theme
  • Power: Not applicable
  • Feedback: This class doesn't seem to carve out it's own niche very well. The poison proficiency and predator is ok but the Spider on Wall feature is just a poor mans Second-Story Work. I don't really have a good feel for what the class should be doing. Is it an assassin with poisons? Is it a sharpshooter? They don't really mix very well in my opinion.
  • Suggestion (if any): Focus on one thing and double down on it. Change Spider on Wall and Predator to be features much more suitable to the theme. 


Edit: Another suggestion could be leaning darkweaver into the assassin type more and let them ignore disadvantage imposed by light levels when sneaking, or something like that. Then they could fill the sneaky assassin archetype which neither of the other subclasses currently fill.

I'm with you on these archetypes feeling very much like they overlap, My suggestion would be to add variants of the classes that do not make an appearance as archetypes for some classes. For example, having 1 of the Rogue archetypes be the "Bard class" of the game, or having a Ranger archetype with increased casting ability to be the Druid. Seems like a decent compromise to have fewer classes, while also having flavor elements that people like. 


Typos happen. More so on the phone.

Baraz
Level 10
Steam Link Newsletter Link Kickstarter Backer Weaponsmith (Bronze)
2 days ago (edited)

By the way, why did you make your Horde Breaker so much weaker than the core rules ? 

In the game, the description reads that you must drop an enemy to get another attack. 

In the 5e SRD, you get an extra attack if you are adjacent to two enemies. 

The Colossus Slayer (extra damage as soon as target has any damage) becomes extremely better than all other options. 

I wanted to take Shadow Tamer, then Horde Breaker, but the rational choice ended-up being to take Slayer. 

EDIT / ADDENDUM :
Reading it some more, I now see the fundamental differences and why you require it must drop an opponent to trigger. 

  • In 5e core, it only works if there are two targets 5 feet away (it is the concept of the Horde Breaker) 
  • In Solasta v. 0.3.3, it works at any distance, irrelevant of any adjacent targets, and therefore should also work with ranged weapons according to the wording (read: have not tested). 

I guess it is OK is that light, but still not sure how often this can be triggered and therefore not sure it is very viable in comparison to the other Ranger subclass features. 


Steam profile : https://steamcommunity.com/id/baraz/

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