[0.5.42] Scribe scroll check not performed correctly

Redglyph
Level 13
3 weeks ago (edited)

Attempting a Scribe action on a Scroll of Fireball (so 3rd level), with a level-3 wizard with INT 18 (+4) and Intelligence Arcana +6, is not possible, hovering the mouse on the greyed-out option justifies that with "The spell level is too high".

Even if the spell level is higher than the caster level, there is still a chance of success with a check, which is not made in this case.

I reported the two problems related to scribe spell long ago, the first one was this, the second one was the missing check when the caster level was greater than or equal to the spell level. The 2nd seems to have been fixed since the Spring update, but I tested the 1st one and it hasn't been fixed.

I quoted the rule for spell scrolls in my first post (for ex, from Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition System Reference Document documentation: https://dnd-srd-sphinx.readthedocs.io/en/latest/magic-item/spell-scroll.html), here it is in full: (the same text appears in other official documents, see ref below, it's simply easier to copy from there. Saying it's an independent website is not an acceptable rejection criterion)

Spell Scroll

Scroll, varies

A spell scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can use an action to read the scroll and cast its spell without having to provide any of the spell’s components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible.

If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect. Once the spell is cast, the words on the scroll fade, and the scroll itself crumbles to dust.

The level of the spell on the scroll determines the spell’s saving throw DC and attack bonus, as well as the scroll’s rarity, as shown in the Spell Scroll table.

Spell Scroll

Spell Level

Rarity

Save DC

Attack Bonus

Cantrip

Common

13

+5

1st

Common

13

+5

2nd

Uncommon

13

+5

3rd

Uncommon

15

+7

4th

Rare

15

+7

5th

Rare

17

+9

6th

Very rare

17

+9

7th

Very rare

18

+10

8th

Very rare

18

+10

9th

Legendary

19

+11

A wizard spell on a spell scroll can be copied just as spells in spellbooks can be copied. When a spell is copied from a scroll the copier must succeed on an Intelligence (Arcana) check with a DC equal to 10 + the spell’s level. If the check succeeds, the spell is successfully copied. Whether the check succeeds or fails, the spell scroll is destroyed.

So it still seems incorrectly implemented. As I understand it, the wizard must pass the DC check (and risk to lose the scroll on failure).

Some official references, in case this problem is tackled or added to the differences vs SRD 5.1.

- Systems Reference Document 5.1, rules of the Open Gaming Licence that are used in Solasta, pg 242, same text I copied above (document by WotC, available for download on their website) 

- DnD Basic Rules - the public document, simplified version of the Player's Handbook, pg 169-170, same text as above (document by WotC, available for download on their website)

- Dungeon Master's Guide, pg 200-201, same text as above (printed book by WotC, available for purchase in their store)

It was already like that in editions 3.5 and 3, though there are small differences in the procedures, mishaps, and so on.

Redglyph
Level 13
2 weeks ago

Probably to mention in the known issues (Items, Spells & Powers), or the differences with D&D 5E. I suspect the latter since other games like NWN did the same and it's a minor, acceptable variation and less work. Games like Pathfinder based on 3.5 do implement it though, which makes it interesting.

rbarbare
Level 10
2 weeks ago

You can only copy spells you can prepare. A 3rd level wizard cannot prepare a Fireball, so they can't copy it. Exact text:

When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.

Ref: https://5thsrd.org/character/classes/wizard/

Redglyph
Level 13
1 week ago

Thanks but this has already been discussed at length in these forums and in the Steam troll lair, and I'm really tired of turning in circles ;-) 

So I'm not posting this for yet another debate, I'm posting this to bring the problem to the devs' attention, since I never got any feedback.

The exact text is quoted and referenced in my first post, even with page numbers, in 3 of the official documents. Your link is a personal interpretation of the SRD by someone else.

rbarbare
Level 10
1 week ago

Ok, here's another link with the officially licensed source material with the exact same text: https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/wizard

When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it. 

Which is also identical to the text in the official 5.1 version licensed to Tactical Adventures: https://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/SRD-OGL_V5.1.pdf

It is not a "personal interpretation of the SRD by someone else". Straight from the Wizard's description in the officially-licensed version:

As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells. If your Intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook.

So a third-level wizard cannot prepare Fireball, which is a third-level spell, because they don't have a third-level spell slot. If they can't prepare it, they can't scribe it either. You are ignoring the text under the class description.

Redglyph
Level 13
1 week ago

Why can't you just read the material I've provided? It's clearly described and it's official text *sighs* 

You're not helping, I'm not responding to this anymore. It's a shame there is no way to submit a bug without having everyone giving his / her opinion.